TechHub

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://universeodon.com/@Holocluck" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Holocluck Henly</a> I know quite a few avatars that seem not to have changed much since they first showed up, and that was before mesh became a thing. In at least one case, this goes all the way to classic, non-attachment "hair". That's probably because it has never been possible to recreate that individual look with a hair attachment, much less with a mesh body, a mesh head and mesh hair. The owner was the main tech in Metropolis before he left the sinking ship for OSgrid. That was around 2021, and yet, he styled his OSgrid avatar just like his Metro avatar. In at least one more case, the hair is only a hairbase, and the avatar has never worn any attachments AFAIK. The owner seems to strongly oppose the idea of styling avatars, at least he doesn't understand why people do that, and I think he has only got that one avatar. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenSim" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">OpenSim</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenSimulator" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">OpenSimulator</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Metaverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Metaverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VirtualWorlds" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">VirtualWorlds</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Avatars" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Avatars</a>

Jupiter RowlandInteresting stuff to see there. On the one hand, Morning Glory shows a kind of beach house scene, very simple, built entirely from tinted prims with no textures, no transparency or anything. It's kind of reminiscent of screenshots from other virtual worlds. It's cute in a certain way, not to mention easy on your graphics hardware On the other hand, @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@Prodyck" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Prodyck Theas</a>' display includes a working mirror, thanks to PBR. Of course, this requires dedicated graphics hardware. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenSim" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">OpenSim</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenSimulator" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">OpenSimulator</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Metaverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Metaverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VirtualWorlds" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">VirtualWorlds</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OSgrid" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">OSgrid</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OSG18B" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">OSG18B</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=GridAnniversary" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">GridAnniversary</a>

Jupiter RowlandThe ZDF-Hitparade has been rebuilt in OpenSim, and the inauguration event has just started. For better or worse. CW: long (over 600 characters), Deutscher Schlager mentioned

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://nrw.social/@haiku_shelf" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Angelika Wienert</a> Ich könnte sie auch hier und jetzt in einer Antwort posten mitsamt Alt-Texten. Aber die Bilder enthalten beide Augenkontakt. Und ich habe hier von Hubzilla aus keinerlei Möglichkeit, dafür zu sorgen, daß die Bilder auf Mastodon ausgeblendet werden. Ich würde potentiell haufenweise Leute damit triggern. Also versuche ich es mal so in der Hoffnung, daß Mastodon keine Linkvorschauen mit Bildern generiert. <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkmc3YmgUu5jTyhc6YqC8VjnMwmFtdjFFA45MHTqyBFaA2/photos/image/f083daff-ebab-47c7-8104-9b989a37deca" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Link zu Bild Nr. 1</a> Originaler Alt-Text: <blockquote>Digital rendering from OSgrid, one of the biggest out of thousands of 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator. It shows Juno Rowland, a female avatar, standing at the end of a wooden pier with the ocean in the background. The avatar is designed to resemble a woman who is no older than in her 30s. She is slim underneath loose-fitting clothes. She has light to medium-light skin, brown eyes and black hair which is styled as a neck-long bob. She is wearing a black tank top with the logo of the 17th birthday of OSgrid on it, a straight, lower-thigh-length, light-to-medium-light-brown denim miniskirt, a pair of black flat ballet shoes and a golden necklace with the OSgrid logo. The OSgrid logo is made up from five identical parallelograms arranged in a circular, star-like pattern. It is also part of the birthday logo which is mostly two tones of yellowish orange. The writing on the birthday logo reads, from top to bottom, “OSgrid”, “The Open Source Metaverse” and “17th Birthday”. A more detailed description of the image, including explanations, can be found in the post itself. If you are on Mastodon, Misskey or one of their forks, you can find it by opening the summary and content warning which includes, “CW: long (22,270 characters, including 20,377 characters of image descriptions), eye contact”, and then following the actual post text. If you are on Pleroma, Akkoma, another Pleroma fork, Friendica, Hubzilla or (streams), the full description will follow right after the images.</blockquote> <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkmc3YmgUu5jTyhc6YqC8VjnMwmFtdjFFA45MHTqyBFaA2/photos/image/f389f43d-52ed-46b7-9cf6-cd499da901b1" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Link zu Bild Nr. 2</a> Originaler Alt-Text: <blockquote>Digital rendering from OSgrid, one of the biggest out of thousands of 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator. It shows Juno Rowland, a female avatar, standing at the end of a wooden pier with the ocean in the background. The avatar is designed to resemble a woman who is no older than in her 30s. She is slim underneath loose-fitting clothes. She has light to medium-light skin and black hair which is styled as a neck-long bob. She is wearing a black tank top, a straight, lower-thigh-length, light-to-medium-light-brown denim miniskirt, a pair of black flat ballet shoes and a golden necklace. She is looking at the cover of the Leonard Cohen album Recent Songs on a white easel. The cover is a painting of the musician's face. He is shown to be a middle-aged man with light skin, green eyes and black hair in a black shirt. A hummingbird is drawn hovering above his shoulder to the left. The background is medium blue. Cohen's name and the album title are written in the top corners. A more detailed description of the image, including explanations, can be found in the post itself. If you are on Mastodon, Misskey or one of their forks, you can find it by opening the summary and content warning which includes, “CW: long (22,270 characters, including 20,377 characters of image descriptions), eye contact”, and then following the actual post text. If you are on Pleroma, Akkoma, another Pleroma fork, Friendica, Hubzilla or (streams), the full description will follow right after the images.</blockquote> Gemeinsame Langbeschreibung beider Bilder (ging in den Post direkt unter die Bilder): <blockquote>Image descriptions The medium and the basic setup Both images in this post are digital renderings from inside a 3-D virtual world, using shaders, simplified real-time reflections and an artificial sun as a directed light source for illuminating the scenery and casting shadows, but without ray-tracing. It shows a digital avatar made to look like a fairly young woman. In the first image, she is standing at the end of a wooden pier. In the second image, she is standing next to a painted portrait of Leonard Cohen which he has used as an album cover. The locations The images were created in two different places in OSgrid, known as sims. Both are linked to the 17th anniversary of OSgrid which is celebrated from July 22th to July 28th, 2024. OSgrid is a virtual world, a so-called "grid", based on a virtual-world engine named OpenSimulator. OpenSimulator, OpenSim in short, is a free, open-source, server-side re-implementation of the technology of Second Life. It is not affiliated with Linden Lab, the creators and owners of Second Life. Second Life is a centralised, commercial 3-D virtual world launched in 2003. It experienced a big hype starting in 2007 which faded away in 2008. It still exists, it is constantly evolving, and it is celebrating its 21st anniversary this month. In early 2007, Linden Lab laid open the source code of the official Second Life viewer, the client application needed to access Second Life. This revealed large parts of Second Life's technology and made not only the development of third-party viewers possible, but also the creation of a server application that can be used to create virtual worlds similar to Second Life. This server application was eventually named OpenSimulator, and the first test releases still came out in the first half of 2007. Second Life, as well as the worlds based on OpenSimulator, are referred to as "grids" because they are split into square regions of 256 by 256 metres or roughly 280 by 280 yards. This roughly corresponds to a bit more than three by two major-league football pitches or soccer fields or a bit less than three by two American football fields. While Second Life is a walled garden with only one publicly accessible grid that is connected to nothing else, OpenSimulator can be used by just about anyone to create and run their own grid. In 2008, a new feature called the Hypergrid was introduced that allows avatars registered on one grid to visit other grids. Thus, OpenSim is not only decentralised, but actually mostly federated. There are currently over 3,000 active grids, maybe over 4,000, and especially most of the larger public grids are connected to the Hypergrid. Sims, in turn, are short for simulators which have to run in regions for any kind of content to be able to exist in them and for avatars to be able to enter them. In Second Life, one sim always covers one region. OpenSim has so-called varsims which can cover multiple regions arranged in a square without having borders between the regions. The upper limit imposed by the software is 32 by 32 or 1,024 regions, but anything significantly larger than 16 by 16 or 256 regions has been proven to be highly impractical. OSgrid was the first public OpenSim grid. It was launched in July, 2007, as a proving ground for OpenSim's own development which it still is. Nonetheless, it was the first OpenSim grid to surpass Second Life in land area, and it currently is one out of two grids to have done so. Also, as early as 2007 already, OSgrid referred to OpenSim in general and then, by 2008, to itself as "the Open Source Metaverse". It has used this term for an actual virtual world 14 years earlier than Mark Zuckerberg. For about just as long, the word "metaverse" has been part of the standard vocabulary in the OpenSim community. The avatar in both pictures The avatar shown in the image is Juno Rowland. She is, in fact, a backup avatar for my female alt, short for alternate avatar, that goes by the same name and looks the same while being at home on another grid. Juno is built to look like a young woman. OpenSim does not explicitly support different ethnicities, but the basic avatar-building components available in OpenSim are almost exclusively geared towards avatars looking white or Latin American and in the 30s at most. She is 1.74 metres or 5 feet 8 1/2 inches tall which is taller than the average real-life Western woman by about the length of an adult person's palm. She is fairly slim which is somewhat concealed by the loose fit of her clothes. Juno's skin textures are light to medium-light. Highlights and partly also shades are part of the skin textures, but very subdued. Most shading on her is created by the shader built into the viewer. She has brown eyes and black hair worn as a rather short bob that narrows downward from where her ears are and extends to a height halfway between her chin and her shoulders. Her bangs cover her forehead entirely. Strands of her bangs partly cover her eyebrows, and two of them extend down as far as her upper eyelids. On each side, a single thick lock extends forward and slightly inward. These locks occasionally cover parts of her lower cheeks. Juno is wearing a loose-fitting black tank top with the official logo of the 17th grid birthday festivities on it. The logo stretches across about 90% of Juno's chest and from slightly higher than right below her breasts to slightly higher than the middle of the front of the shirt. In the top left corner of the birthday logo, there is the OSgrid logo. It consists of five identical parallelograms. Each one of them resembles a rectangle which, when placed horizontally, has its short edges tilted to the right by 18 degrees. The long edges are longer than the short edges by about three quarters. These five parallelograms are arranged around a common centre at the same distance and at angles of 72 degrees from each other. There is always one pointed angle slipping under the long side of a neighbouring parallelogram. This way, the gap in the middle between the parallelograms is a five-point star. The outer short edge of each parallelogram is farther away from the centre than the parallel long edge of the neighbouring parallelogram by a bit over half the latter's width. The top right parallelogram is placed exactly vertically. The whole logo has a light, yellowish orange tint. Size-wise, it takes up a bit more than 20% of the width and about 70% of the height of the entire birthday logo. To the right of the OSgrid logo, there is the name of the grid, "OSgrid", written in all capitals in the same tint of orange as the OSgrid logo. The writing is about two thirds as tall as each parallelogram in the OSgrid logo is long. It starts to the right of the vertical top right parallelogram at roughly 80% of its width, and the top of the letters is slightly higher than the obtuse top right corner of the top right parallelogram. The typeface used is a heavy variant of the Futura typeface, a geometric sans-serif typeface known for fairly small lower-case characters and a lower-case "a" which is like a "d" with a shorter line, much like in hand-writing. Right below, "The Open Source Metaverse" is written at a vertical distance that is roughly the same as the general thickness of the letters in the "OSgrid" writing. All four words start with capitals. The writing lines up with the "OSgrid" writing to the left. The typeface is the same as the one used for the "OSgrid" writing, only smaller by about 60%. It is small enough to not be easily readable in the image at the resolution at which the image was posted. The writing is tinted a light grey, resembling aluminium. Most of the lower half is taken up by a horizontal rectangle, tinted a darker, slightly less saturated, slightly more brownish tone of orange. To the left, it lines up with the bottom pointy-angled corner of the bottom left parallelogram in the logo. To the right, it lines up with the end of the writing "The Open Source Metaverse". At the top, it almost touches the vertical line of the "p" in the same writing. On this rectangle, "17th Birthday" is written in the same black as the rest of the tank top and the same typeface as the other two writings, but twice the height as the writing "The Open Source Metaverse". Vertically, this writing is slightly above the middle of the rectangle. Horizontally, it lines up with the other two writings on the left. Below the tank top, Juno is wearing a straight, loose-fitting miniskirt which ends roughly the length of one of her hands above her knees. Its texture gives it a look like washed-out denim in various shades of slightly yellowish, medium-light-to-medium brown. Seams, pockets and the fly are all only part of the texture. The pocket on the front to the left from Juno's point of view is completely covered by the tank top, the pocket on the other side is mostly covered. The texture does not emulate any rear pockets. Apart from the skirt, Juno's legs are bare. On her feet, she is wearing a pair of flat ballet shoes which mostly show a black texture, slightly lighter than the tank top, with a structure that resembles an unidentified fabric. The insides of the shoes are a medium-light, shaded tone of brown, suggesting some fabric or thin leather again. The soles are a medium-light, slightly reddish brown. They have very low heels. Around her neck, Juno is wearing a necklace consisting what appears to be a single wire of solid gold of a similar thickness as the material used for clothes hangers plus an OSgrid logo made of gold as well. The logo is a bit over half as big as the one on her tank top. The eye through which the wire runs is attached near one of the outer obtuse-angled corners, so the logo is rotated to the left in comparison with the one on the tank top. Both the wire and the logo are glossy, the logo more than the wire, but the material appearance is textured onto both. In both Second Life and OpenSim-based worlds, unlike most other 3-D virtual worlds, avatars are not only highly configurable in-world, but also highly modular. Everything on Juno is an attachment. Her body is an attachment, the head included. Her feet are a separate attachment; different feet for medium and high heels are available. The skin textures can be replaced, and standard skins can be worn on this body. The eye texture can be replaced, too. Eyelashes, fingernails and toenails are attachments, although the latter are fully concealed inside her shoes. Her hair is an attachment. The top, the skirt, each shoe and the necklace are separate attachments which makes it possible for her to wear all kinds of outfits. Her shape is configurable with over 80 parameters, and even that can be replaced with another one which is usually just as configurable. Everything that Juno is made up from was made by users. Everything else, including the purpose-made texture on the tank top, was made directly for OpenSim. The scenery in the first image The first image was created on a sim called Tropicana Tuneage, a multi-purpose sim which is regularly used for events, but which is also Juno's home in OSgrid. The scenery is limited to a wooden pier which Juno is standing on. It takes up the lower 45% of the image. Its water-side end would line up with the lower side of Juno's butt if she was shown from behind. The top surface of the pier is textured in a way that suggests wooden planks that run transversally across the pier. The wood is very slightly less yellowish tone of brown than Juno's skirt and varies greatly between light-medium, almost light, and medium. The sides of the pier are outside the borders of the image. The pier leads to the southwest. The camera angle follows it almost exactly in parallel. It is oriented farther to the right by about one degree. It is also roughly at the height of Juno's waist. Beyond the pier and behind Juno, there is nothing but blue sea with gentle waves on it. The tone of blue has a fairly low saturation, and some of the waves are partly almost medium-dark grey. The horizon is at almost precisely two thirds of the height of the image, roughly below Juno's breasts, which shows that the camera is tilted downward by a few degrees. The sky is a very pale, greenish blue with a very faint gradient towards the horizon that suggests haze. To Juno's right, there are some thin clouds which increasingly blend in with the sky, the lower they are. A bit of cloud is above her head as well. There are no clouds to her left. Juno in the first image Juno is slightly left of centre, standing on her right foot while moving her left foot forward and turning it to the left. She is about to turn herself around. Her arms are on her sides, the left arm is moved a bit forward. Her hands are relaxed with both middle fingers bent inward a little more than the other fingers. Juno's face is expressionless. Any expressions would require specific animations to be played, mostly manually which would be an extra effort. She is looking past a point slightly above the camera. Her hair is fully covering her ears. The lock on the left of her face, the right for the on-looker, is in front of the lower parts of her cheek. So is the lock on the other side, but less so. Lighting in the first image The simulated time of day is late afternoon. The sun is quite low already in the west. This can be told by the shadows which Juno's legs cast on the wooden planks texture on the pier as well as some narrow highlights on her neck, her arms and her legs. The sun itself is not in the image. Apart from the sun, there is medium grey ambient light that shines the same from everywhere and therefore doesn't create any shadows. Save for being cropped, the image is unedited and unprocessed. The scenery in the second image The second image was created in a different place on the same grid named OSG17B2. The name refers to OSgrid's 17th birthday, OSG17B in short. It is the second one of four numbered exhibition sims created for the birthday, two of which were opened to the public while the other two remain unused. In the second image, Juno is inside a building used as a gallery of music album covers. Most of the right-hand 60% of the image are taken up by an art easel. It is about one and two thirds times as high as Juno is tall while appearing smaller due to the perspective. It is rotated to the right from the camera being directly aimed at its front by about 25 degrees. The easel is a fairly stable and elaborate construction which looks like it is adjustable for various canvas sizes. Below where the canvas would be put, there is a shelf for painting utensils. The easel is mostly white with no texture on it. The exceptions are eleven slotted screw heads and a handle roughly shaped like a six-point star with which the easel can be adjusted to different canvas sizes. They have metal-like, partly light grey, partly light yellowish or brownish textures with medium-light orange spots hinting at corrosion. These textures include highlights and shading. The parts themselves are not shiny. Of the screw heads, only five are unobscured. One is holding the adjustment handle in place. Three are holding the almost vertical part of the easel together, one close to the top, two near the bottom. The fifth one connects the right-hand rear support to the foot. The easel is adjusted for something way bigger than what it is carrying. It's the cover of the album Recent Songs by the singer-songwriter Leonard Cohen. It was released in 1979 as his sixth studio album, and it is not known for high-charting single releases. The cover is about half as high as Juno is tall. Again, due to the perspective, it appears to be smaller. Its aspect ratio is very slightly warped, it is a little wider than it is high. The album cover is based on a frontal facial portrait painting of Cohen by Dianne Lawrence. It shows him as a middle-aged, light-skinned man with green eyes and black, medium-short hair which he wears in a somewhat asymmetrical hairdo that is slightly fuller on his left, the on-looker's right, than on the other side. The top of his hair is cut off by the top edge of the canvas. At the bottom, the portrait ends at Cohen's shoulders. He is wearing a black shirt which lacks too many details to be identifiable any further. The background behind him is a solid, slightly pale medium blue with a minimal hint of green. Above his right shoulder, his left shoulder from the on-looker's point of view, there is a drawing of a hummingbird which is only black and background blue and about as long from beak to tail feathers as Cohen's mouth is wide. The bird seems to be hovering above his shoulder with no intention to touch down. Its beak is oriented to the right for the on-looker and tilted slightly downward to between Cohen's shoulder and the collar of his shirt. Between the top left corner and Cohen's hair, his name is written, "Leonard Cohen". Likewise, between his hair and the top right corner, the title of the album is written, "Recent Songs". Both are in black, fairly small, in an unidentified, very heavy geometric sans-serif typeface and in all-caps. The narrow right-hand side of the box that has the portrait on its front has a medium-dark wood texture, slightly reddish, slightly greyish, with the grain perpendicular to the long edges. The wall behind the easel is mostly white with a black circular pattern on it. It consists of 39 concentric circles whose thickness increase from the outermost to the innermost circle. Instead of a 40th circle, there is a dot in the centre which is a little bigger than the thickness of the innermost circle. The texture itself is a bit over one and a half times as high as Juno is tall and twice as wide as it is high. Thus, it has ample of white space on both sides whereas the outermost 16 circles are more or less cut at the top and the bottom. Two of these patterns are within the border of the image above one another. The upper one is cut off by the upper edge of the image in such a way that only the two innermost circles are complete. The wall makes up a bit less than the upper two thirds of the background of the image. Apart from Juno and the easel, everything below is ground. The edge between the wall and the floor shows that the camera is rotated from being perpendicular to the wall by some five degrees to the left. Thus, the easel is rotated to the right by about 20 degrees from being parallel to the wall. Besides, the camera is as high above the ground as Juno's waist and tilted downward only very minimally. The ground is a medium orange in the bottom left corner of the image. It gets a little darker and more purplish towards the opposite corner where it meets the wall. Juno in the second image Juno is on the left-hand side of the image. standing in front of the easel, a little left of its centre, and facing it. The image shows her to the left of the easel and from the rear right. Her head is tilted downward as if she was looking at the album cover. Her face is entirely on the far side of her head. The bottom of her hair is shifted to the back and to the left because she is actually in motion. Her right ear is still fully concealed under hair. Her arms are relaxed on both sides. She is resting her weight on her right leg while having lifted up the heel of her left foot. The right strap of her tank top is hovering above her right shoulder at a distance of a little more than the thickness of one of her fingers. The background appears through the gap. Lighting in the second image The only light available in the image are the omnipresent medium grey ambient light and several white point light on the ceiling beyond the edges of the image, only one of which is on this side of the wall. The sun is fixed straight above the scene, but the roof of the building which is outside the image is in its way. Since shadows are on in this picture, the roof keeps the sunlight out. Point light sources like those on the ceiling don't cast shadows, so they add to the ambient light, but they only illuminate avatars, objects and the like from one side. The highlights on her legs hint at the position of the sole point light on this side of the wall, namely behind and slightly to the left of Juno. Save for being cropped, the image is unedited and unprocessed.</blockquote> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Bildbeschreibung" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Bildbeschreibung</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Bildbeschreibungen" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Bildbeschreibungen</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=BildbeschreibungenMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">BildbeschreibungenMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWBildbeschreibungenMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWBildbeschreibungenMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://nrw.social/@haiku_shelf" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Angelika Wienert</a> Wenn du Bildbeschreibungen so kritisch betrachtest, hätte ich gern deine ehrliche Meinung zu meinem letzten Bilderpost, der jetzt auch schon wieder fast ein Jahr her sein dürfte. Würdest du sagen, die Bilder sind hinreichend detailliert und akkurat beschrieben, oder fehlt dir da etwas? Vorab: Das ist kein Mastodon-Tröt, aber trotzdem ein Post im Fediverse, der auch nach Mastodon gekommen ist. Und er ist sehr lang. Er enthält zwei Bilder, die ich jeweils zweimal beschrieben habe: einmal "kurz" im Alt-Text, einmal sehr viel länger und detaillierter mit Text-Transkripten im Post selbst inklusive einer gemeinsamen Präambel für beide Beschreibungen, die auch alle nötigen Erklärungen enthält. Das Original findest du <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkmc3YmgUu5jTyhc6YqC8VjnMwmFtdjFFA45MHTqyBFaA2/actor?mid=https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6Mkmc3YmgUu5jTyhc6YqC8VjnMwmFtdjFFA45MHTqyBFaA2/item/b6ae326a-c207-46dd-836b-6bc2b6a3509c" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">hier auf (streams)</a>. Da wirst du erst die Zusammenfassung nebst Inhaltswarnung öffnen müssen, dann nach unten scrollen bzw. den Post ausklappen, dann ein Spoiler-Tag mit zusätzlicher Inhaltswarnung öffnen, um die Bilder sehen zu können. Wenn du an einem Computer bist, werden die Alt-Texte ganz klassisch angezeigt, wenn du den Mauscursor auf eins der Bilder schiebst. Was Smartphones oder Tablets angeht, bin ich überfragt. Alternativ kannst du dir den Post ansehen auf Mastodons Weboberfläche, indem du <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/osg17b" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">auf mastodon.social nach dem Hashtag #</a><a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%E2%81%A0OSG17B" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">⁠OSG17B</a> suchst. Da ist es dann der dritte Post von unten. Du solltest sehr viel Zeit mitbringen. Der Alt-Text des ersten Bildes ist 1.500 Zeichen lang, der des zweiten Bildes 1.499, und die langen Beschreibungen messen insgesamt über 20.000 Zeichen. Ich arbeite seit Ende letzten Jahres immer mal wieder an den Bildbeschreibungen für eine Reihe von Portraitbildern. Ich habe mich auch schon <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/1e63be04-d96e-412a-ab47-aff18c5f9ad8" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">sehr, sehr umfassend über Bildbeschreibungen informiert</a> und <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/item/95b6e36d-7fcd-4791-8cc1-c93e8b9975a3" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">sehr gute Gründe für so lange Bildbeschreibungen</a>. Trotzdem hätte ich gern die eine oder andere Meinung zu meinen Bildbeschreibungen. Falls ich irgendwelche Fehler gemacht habe oder irgendwo nachlässig war, will ich das nicht wiederholen. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Bildbeschreibung" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Bildbeschreibung</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Bildbeschreibungen" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Bildbeschreibungen</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=BildbeschreibungenMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">BildbeschreibungenMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWBildbeschreibungenMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWBildbeschreibungenMeta</a>

Jupiter RowlandMusings about OSgrid's 18th birthday; CW: long (over 2,000 characters)

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mstdn.social/@kevinrns" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Kevin Russell</a> <blockquote>I frequently put both a screenshot and url in alt text, by FAR the most information-rich and honest way to provide some potentially missing information.</blockquote> Never provide any information exclusively in alt-text! Not everyone can access alt-text. Accessing alt-text requires either at least one properly working hand (which not everyone has) or a screen reader (which sighted people don't have). Those who don't have either will not be able to get any information that's only available in the alt-text and nowhere else. See also the following pages in my early-work-in-progress wiki about image descriptions and alt-text in the Fediverse: <ul><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/Can(20)everyone(20)access(20)alt-text(3f)" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Can everyone access alt-text?</a></li><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/Don(27)t(20)explain(20)things(20)or(20)give(20)other(20)information(20)only(20)in(20)alt-text(21)" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Don't explain things or give other information only in alt-text!</a></li><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/Don(27)t(20)use(20)alt-text(20)to(20)write(20)around(20)your(20)character(20)limit(21)" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Don't use alt-text to write around your character limit!</a></li></ul> Also (I don't have a page on that yet), don't add URLs to alt-text. Alt-text is always plain text. No webpage, no Fediverse software will turn an URL in alt-text into a functional, clickable link, no browser or Fediverse app will, and no screen reader will. All this belongs into the post itself. CC: @<a href="https://urbanists.social/@MissGayle" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Miss Gayle</a> @<a href="https://beige.party/@LoganFive" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Logan 5 and 999 others</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://friendica.xyz/profile/montag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Montag</a> Wichtig übrigens: "Quote" und "Quote-Post" sind zwei völlig verschiedene Dinge. Die darf man nicht miteinander verwechseln. Quotes sind Zitate. Also das hier: <blockquote>das heißt, auf Mastodon sieht man einen Quote nur wenn der zitierte expliziet zustimmt, während der Quote auf allen anderen Fediverse Plattformen ganz normal angezeigt wird?</blockquote> Um die geht es hier aber nicht. Mastodon-Nutzer kennen nämlich keine Quotes, keine Zitate. Mastodon-Nutzer kennen ja im allgemeinen nur Twitter und Mastodon. Twitter hat keine Zitate. Mastodon auch nicht; es kann sie zwar anzeigen und seit Mastodon 4.0 (Oktober 2022) auch sauber, aber es kann sie nicht erzeugen. Und deswegen kennen Mastodon-Nutzer das gar nicht. Quote-Posts, um die es hier geht, sind dagegen komplette Posts, die in andere Posts reingebaut sind. Das ist das, was auf Friendica "Quoted Share" heißt. Also das hier: <a href="https://friendica.xyz/profile/montag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://friendica.xyz/profile/montag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Montag</a> schrieb den folgenden <a href="https://friendica.xyz/display/adf174d5-7668-7c09-5d73-641415501923" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Beitrag</a> Sat, 19 Jul 2025 23:08:45 +0200 @<a href="https://loma.ml/profile/feb" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Matthias</a> das heißt, auf Mastodon sieht man einen Quote nur wenn der zitierte expliziet zustimmt, während der Quote auf allen anderen Fediverse Plattformen ganz normal angezeigt wird? Das ist grober Unfug und ergibt überhaupt keinen Sinn, was haben sich die Mastodon Entwickler dabei gedacht? Auf Twitter heißt das "Quote-Tweet". Oder im Deutschen auch "Drüko" ("Drüber-Kommentar"; erst der Kommentar zum Tweet, dann der eingebettete Tweet) oder "Druko" ("Drunter-Kommentar"; erst der eingebettete Tweet, dann der Kommentar zum Tweet). Auf Mastodon wird auch "Quote-Toot" oder "Quote-Tröt" gesagt. Auf Friendica und Nachfolgern war das früher die einzige Möglichkeit überhaupt, einen Post weiterzuleiten. So etwas wie Retweets (Mastodon: "Boosts", Friendica: "Shares", Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte: "Repeats") wurde erst später nach und nach eingeführt. Auf Twitter ist dagegen in der Praxis das einzige Einsatzgebiet dieses Feature, über anderer Leute Tweets herzuziehen und diese anderen Leute auf dem Wege niederzumachen. Für was anderes werden Quote-Tweets da buchstäblich nicht benutzt. Und so ist es für Mastodon-Nutzer komplett unvorstellbar, daß irgendjemand irgendwo dieses Feature für was anderes nutzen könnte. Viele sind ja von Twitter nach Mastodon auch deswegen abgehauen, weil Mastodon eben keine Quote-Posts hat. Weil sie glaubten, da vor Quote-Posts sicher zu sein. Als Mastodon dann ankündigte, Quote-Posts einzuführen, haben ganz besonders Angehörige unterdrückter Minderheiten (Farbige, Schwule, Lesben, Transpersonen usw.) lautstark dagegen protestiert. Noch einmal: Niemand von denen wußte und weiß bis heute, daß es im Fediverse schon lange Quote-Posts gab und jeder Mastodon-Tröt jederzeit ungehindert außerhalb Mastodon und dann nach Mastodon rein quote-post-bar ist. Genau deshalb kommt Mastodon mit diesem "Feigenblatt" davon: Dieser Schalter wiegt die Mastodon in Sicherheit. In einer Sicherheit, die sie nie hatten, was aber annähernd niemand auf Mastodon weiß. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NichtNurMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">NichtNurMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePosts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePosts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweet" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTweet</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTweets" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTweets</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToot" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteToot</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteToots" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteToots</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTr%C3%B6t" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTröt</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteTr%C3%B6ts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteTröts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteBoost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuoteBoosts" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuoteBoosts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotedShares" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotedShares</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=QuotePostDebatte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">QuotePostDebatte</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.world/@lucy_idk" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Lucy idk ⁂ ⚝ ⁂ ⚝ ⁂ ⚝ ⁂ ⚝ ⁂ ⚝ ⁂</a> Since Mastodon 4.4.0, desktop/laptop users can no longer see alt-texts by hovering their mouse cursor over an image. They have to click the "alt" badge in the bottom right corner now. This change has never been announced to them. Now there are countless Mastodon users trying to figure out how to open alt-texts, and why they can't do it the way they're used to anymore. Of course, this does not affect those who only ever use Mastodon through a mobile app, and who never see the Web interface in the first place. Hubzilla, which is what I use (in case you believed I'm on Mastodon, too; <a href="https://hubzilla.org" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://hubzilla.org</a>, <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla</a>), had a few more changes, not all of which got big announcements. First of all, unlike Mastodon, Hubzilla shows you entire conversation threads immediately. You don't have to look them up yourself. Even your timeline, called "stream" on Hubzilla, consists of threads instead of single messages strewn about. Up until the recently released version 10.4, Hubzilla used to show the comments in conversations strictly chronologically and on only one level. Before it introduced small arrow-like buttons which take you to the parent comment of a comment on a comment, and which can easily be overlooked, it seemed like Hubzilla only had flat, strictly chronological conversations in the first place, like older bulletin-board forum software such as phpBB. In fact, by default, it isn't possible to reply to comments; this has to be activated manually. Also, in longer conversations, Hubzilla used to show only the latest three comments. One click revealed all the other comments, no matter how many. However, Hubzilla always loaded the whole thread in one go. This put a lot of strain on the server, and it could take a while in your browser. The first change in version 10.4 which came out early this week was that, like its ancestor Friendica and its descendants (streams) and Forte had done much longer ago, Hubzilla switched from a strictly chronological and flat view to a tree-style view which shows you directly who replied to whom. In addition, however, Hubzilla introduced "lazy loading". While it's aware of the whole conversation right away, it doesn't load the whole conversation at once anymore. Normally, it only shows the comments on the start post itself. Only if you want to check a certain comment deeper into the conversation, that branch is shown up to that comment. If you want to see other branches, you have to open them manually now. To add to the confusion, you can do so in two ways which even make the respective branch look different. There's one icon that unfolds a branch comment by comment, but in a flat view; it's directly underneath the respective comment. And there's another icon that unfolds a branch in an indented view, three levels at once. But that icon is stashed away in a menu, so those who haven't read the 10.4 announcement won't even go look for it. And it's three levels at once because Hubzilla doesn't show more than four levels in this indented view so that the indentation doesn't get too extreme. The main cause of drama is the comment editor. Unlike Mastodon where you have exactly one editor for everything, Hubzilla, like Facebook and every blog under the sun, has a separate editor for comments. It used to be conveniently placed under the bottom of the conversation itself. By default, you would comment on the post itself; if you wanted to comment on a comment (again, this is an optional feature), you had to click an icon under that comment, and whoever posted that comment was mentioned in the comment editor. Since Hubzilla 10.4, for those users who have activated the "reply to comments" feature, the comment editor under the bottom of the thread is gone. Instead, the post got the same reply button that the comments already had. Whatever you want to comment on, you now have to click that button. And then the comment editor opens as a pop-up over the rest of the UI. For starters, this is inconvenient. Also, there was no big announcement for this, so these Hubzilla users didn't even know how to comment with the editor "gone". Besides, the position of the comment editor is fixed. And it tends to cover up at least parts of whatever you want to comment on, especially if you want to comment on the post itself. Lastly, if you want to interact with anything else, e.g. hover over mentions so you can see their full IDs and add them manually (which is necessary if they're Mastodon accounts; they won't see your comment if you don't mention them) or copy-paste part of whatever you want to comment on into your comment draft as a quote, you can no longer do that while the comment editor is open. You have to close it and re-open it later. This adds quite a bit of inconvenience. That, and it isn't documented anywhere either that the comment editor keeps its contents when you close it and re-open it for the same post/comment. The fact that you do, in fact, not lose your draft when you close it takes some getting used to. Oh, and at least some of these points affect all Hubzilla users. Whereas, I guess, more than 90% of all Mastodon users only ever use Mastodon through an app, Hubzilla doesn't have any native mobile or desktop apps. There is no alternative to the Web interface. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon44" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon44</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon440" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon440</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla104" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla104</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://skol.social/@rob" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Rob</a> I'm actually not interested in the ATmosphere at all. While I don't try to lock it out, I prefer to stay disconnected from it. Having no character limit worth speaking of (over 16 million), I simply can't imagine paying attention to the needs of those with a 300-character limit. And besides, I don't need a dedicated image-posting server app anyway. Hubzilla could theoretically cover all my needs. The only reason why I use (streams), a descendant of Hubzilla from Hubzilla's own creator, for posting images is because (streams) can make Mastodon blank sensitive images out. Both outclass Instagram, Pixelfed and Flashes in terms of features without even breaking a sweat. As for Loops, I remember that there was quite a bit of a hype when it was announced. I don't know how active it is now, but I haven't seen loops.video way up Fediverse user statistics recently. Then again, Loops is a TikTok clone and mostly only interesting for people who want to escape TikTok. For all other video-uploading purposes, there's PeerTube which is constantly growing. Still, I guess Loops fell to the wayside because dansup simply has too many projects to tend to. AFAIK, it's still waiting for an official stable release. (Then again, so is Lemmy, and it isn't like the Lemmings are flocking to PieFed now that it just had its 1.0 release.) #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Loops" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Loops</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=PeerTube" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">PeerTube</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://skol.social/@rob" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Rob</a> Why are people even forking Mastodon left and right? Is it because they want "Mastodon, but with feature XYZ, but otherwise Mastodon" and not something that's very much not Mastodon? Or is it because they don't know that Pleroma, Akkoma, Misskey, Sharkey, CherryPick, Catodon, Mitra etc. are readily available with exactly the feature(s) they want right now? Not to mention the software family that started with Friendica? #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Pleroma" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Pleroma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Akkoma" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Akkoma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misskey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Misskey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkeys" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forkeys</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Sharkey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Sharkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Catodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Catodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mitra" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mitra</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://social.linux.pizza/@midtsveen" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Erik L. Midtsveen🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈</a> @<a href="https://skol.social/@rob" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Rob</a> One main issue here is that the owner of the whole project is also the owner of the lighthouse instance. And the lighthouse instance is the biggest instance by far because it's the only instance that many newbies even know until well after they've joined. We've seen that often enough in the Fediverse. But on Pixelfed, it seems the most extreme. mastodon.social is so big that it's home of 22% of all active users of the whole Fediverse. But it has never outnumbered all other instances combined for as long as Mastodon actually mattered because one of Mastodon's early target audiences were geeks capable of running their own servers. In fact, mastodon.social hasn't even always been the biggest. Thus, it wouldn't be worth the effort for Gargron and the devs to assume control over mastodon.social since they've got so much competition already. I remember when Lemmy really took off. That was when Reddit was enshittified by asking tens of millions of dollars for its client API, killing off all unofficial frontends. Just like just about all Twitter refugees fled to mastodon.social, just about all Lemmy refugees fled to lemmy.ml. However, lemmy.ml is owned, operated and controlled by the devs. The devs are completely unabashed tankies, one being a Stalinist, one being a Maoist. ".ml" doesn't stand for Mali, it stands for Marxism-Leninism or rather МДЯ☭ЇꙄМ-LЭИЇИЇꙄМ. In fact, they have another instance: lemmygrad.ml. The result was that Lemmy, as a whole, gained the reputation of being a tankie network. Fortunately, however, Reddit was (and still is) so full of geeks that not exactly few freshly-converted Lemmings fired up their own public instances as alternatives. This appears to be very different on Pixelfed. Who's Pixelfed's target audience? For one, artists. Especially photographers. Besides, Instagram refugees. Generally, the vast majority of people who daily-drive Pixelfed aren't geeks. In fact, many of them may never have laid hands on an actual computer in their lives and only ever have used phones as their main digital end-user devices. Thus, it's highly unlikely that disgruntled Pixelfed users rent Web space (or even set up a server at home) and launch their own Pixelfed instance. This leads to a lack of (known) alternatives to pixelfed.social. And I guess there are not exactly few Pixelfed users for whom pixelfed.social is Pixelfed. On top of all this, I don't know whether it's possible to move to another Pixelfed instance and take your stuff with you. And so we have a situation in which confronting dansup for how he's running pixelfed.social is much more feasible than packing your things and moving elsewhere. By the way, Loops' situation should give you to think. As far as I know, loops.video is still the only instance, and it's owned and controlled by dansup. Loops actually started out closed-source. And it seems not too easy to set up your own Loops instance, seeing as videos tend to take up tons of storage, and Loops lacks PeerTube's peer-to-peer load balancing, so you're bound to need a big, powerful, expensive server with a humongous RAID array for storage and an unlimited data plan. Conspiracy theorists may actually be tempted to believe that all this was dansup's intention from the get-go: declare it "federated", but make it difficult to host, thus make it a "federated monolith" and control the entirety of it. Or why else did he whip up Loops when he already had Fedilab, the FediDB and Pixelfed to take care of, seeing as Loops was announced before there was an immediate need for a TikTok alternative, but after Bluesky's "decentralisation" claims had been revealed as humbug? Speaking of the FediDB, look at what software it lists, and then look at what software the Fediverse Observer lists. The Fediverse Observer lists what it can. FediDB lists what dansup allows in, only that he doesn't dare keep server software out that's already fairly well-known. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Pixelfed" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Pixelfed</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Lemmy" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Lemmy</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Loops" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Loops</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://troet.cafe/@andreas_heitmann" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AndyGER :verified_coffee:</a> Wenn du darauf bestehst, daß das ganze Fediverse ohne Ausnahme bis in die hinterletzten Winkel sofort und uneingeschränkt auch für total Technikferne intuitiv nutzbar sein soll, dann wird das Fediverse an sich ganze Features verlieren müssen, weil Nichtnerds sie nicht bedienen können werden. Dann wirst du z. B. den Nutzern von Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte ihre nomadische Identität und ihr gesamtes Berechtigungsmanagement wegnehmen müssen, weil das einfach nicht auf dem Niveau von WhatsApp bedienbar sein wird. Dann wird das Fediverse an sich aber auch weniger sicher sein, weil seine sichersten Bereiche ihre gesamte Sicherheit eingebüßt haben. Ich bin schon mehr als doppelt so lange im Fediverse ist wie du und schon länger auf Hubzilla als du im Fediverse. Und ich kann nur sagen: Ich bin strikt dagegen, daß mir auf Hubzilla ganze Features weggenommen werden, nur damit Hubzilla für Technikferne leichter zu bedienen ist. Und ich glaube, ich spreche für alle Hubzilla-Nutzer. Das ist ungefähr so, wie wenn man von Gentoo fordern würde, entweder wie Linux Mint oder gleich wie Windows zu werden oder den Laden komplett dichtzumachen. Gentoo-Nutzer nutzen Gentoo, gerade eben weil es so ist, wie es ist. Manche Dinge im Fediverse sind einfach, wie sie sind, weil sie so vorgesehen und so konzipiert sind, weil das deren Konzept ist. Die sind anders als Mastodon. Die sind sehr anders als Mastodon. Die sind eher für Nerds, die bereit sind, sich mit der Technik auseinanderzusetzen, die diese Technik aber auch brauchen. Nicht alles muß immer für dieselbe Zielgruppe geeignet sein; wenn es das wäre, würde man ganze andere Zielgruppen ausschließen. Das heißt, wenn du etwas suchen solltest, das an sich wie Friendica ist, aber moderner, flinker und weniger fehleranfällig, kannst du dir vielleicht doch mal (streams) angucken, und zwar bei @<a class="" href="https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu/.well-known/apgateway/did:key:z6MkwHLKBtw6i7zYkndtpdU7T32yPwE16B5V7mf26ACiZKJz/actor" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Der Pepe (nomád) ⁂ ⚝</a> (alias @<a class="" href="https://hub.hubzilla.hu/channel/pepecyb" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝</a>) auf <a href="https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://nomad.fedi-verse.hu</a>. Momentan müssen aber Neuregistrierungen wegen einer Botflut angefragt werden. Außerdem ist es noch komplexer als Friendica, du wirst dich auch da erst einrichten müssen, auch weil du standardmäßig nicht öffentlich posten wirst (ist da übrigens ausdrücklich ein Feature), WYSIWYG gibt's auch da nicht (selbst Formatierungsbuttons müssen "installiert" werden), und die Oberfläche sieht auch weder aus wie eine Smartphone-App von 2025 noch wie Facebook 2025. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://troet.cafe/@andreas_heitmann" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AndyGER :verified_coffee:</a> Was sind deine Anforderungen an Friendica? "Mastodon, aber mehr Zeichen und mehr Bilder, aber ansonsten bitteschön Mastodon?" Friendica ist eben konzeptionell, wie es ist. Und das trifft auf den ganzen Rest der Familie ebenso zu: Hubzilla, (streams), Forte. Dazu gehört eben auch vollwertige Blogging-Tauglichkeit, also nicht nur Mikroblogging wie Mastodon, sondern das volle Programm wie WordPress. Und da ist es gang und gäbe, Posts direkt mit Markup-Code zu formatieren. Da kann man noch so auf den Tisch hauen und fordern, daß das gefälligst alles WYSIWYG zu sein hat, daß der ganze Formatierungs-Hokuspokus gefälligst im Hintergrund abzulaufen hat, und daß das gefälligst hartgecodet und nicht abstellbar zu sein hat! Das passiert nicht. Man kann auch noch so sehr fordern, daß Friendica & Co. sehr viel mehr wie Mastodon werden, z. B. daß man Bilder nur als Dateien an Posts anhängen können soll, weil es doch viel zu kompliziert ist, sie mitten in Posts einzubetten. Das wird auch nicht passieren. Okay, dir gefällt das Ganze dann eben konzeptionell nicht. Es gibt aber Leute, für die das so, wie es ist, optimal ist. Wenn du dann aber auf die Idee kommst, Friendica & Co. gänzlich die Existenzberechtigung abzusprechen, dann mußt du dich nicht wundern, wenn du Gegenwind kriegst. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://loma.ml/profile/z428eu" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Kristian</a> Echt portable Daten und nomadische Identität gibt's in Fediverse seit 13 Jahren, seit Mike Macgirvin mit Red (später Red Matrix, heute Hubzilla) angefangen hat. Das ist keine Science-Fiction, das ist kein Experimentalfeature, das ist stabil und wird von Produktivkanälen genutzt. Ich schreibe hier von einem Hubzilla-Kanal, der über zwei Hubs geklont ist. Was Mike da gebaut hat, ist zum einen um Größenordnungen besser als das, was Bluesky vorhat. Zum anderen: Bluesky hat bis heute nicht geliefert. Mikes Erfindung ist dagegen seit mehr als einem Jahrzehnt ein bombenstabiler Daily Driver. Seit August 2024 gibt's mit Forte (Fork eines Forks eines Forks dreier Forks eines Forks (eines Forks?) eines Forks eines Forks von Friendica; alles immer noch von Mike) die erste Fediverse-Serveranwendung, die nomadische Identität komplett über ActivityPub abfackelt, die nomadisch ist, aber an Protokollen nur ActivityPub kann. Forte ist inzwischen auch offiziell stabil. Das einzige, woran jetzt noch gearbeitet wird, ist, wie man etwas, was a) von vornherein nur auf ActivityPub (oder einem anderen ursprünglich nichtnomadischen Protokoll) gebaut wurde, b) nie nomadisch war, und c) wo das Konto/der Login auch die Identität ist, so nomadisch bekommt wie Hubzilla, (streams) oder Forte. Das macht silverpill, der Entwickler hinter Mitra, und der schreibt auch die ganzen FEPs dazu. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=RedMatrix" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">RedMatrix</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NomadischeIdentit%C3%A4t" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">NomadischeIdentität</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://thecanadian.social/@mike" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mike Fraser :Jets: :flag:</a> You really believe that Mastodon 4.5 will outclass <a href="https://joinsharkey.org/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Sharkey</a>, the most powerful Misskey fork ever? In order to achieve that, Mastodon would also have to add, among many other things <ul><li>full HTML post rendering (including embedding an unlimited number of images within posts, as in with text above and below them; something that the *keys can't do)</li><li>text formatting via Misskey-flavoured Markdown or even more expanded Markdown</li><li>emoji reactions</li><li>full awareness of threaded conversations</li><li>full tree-style thread view with real-time updates as a default in all timelines</li><li>unlimited polls</li><li>Mastodon post import including file attachments</li><li>Pleroma/Akkoma post import including file attachments</li><li>Misskey/Sharkey/Calckey/Firefish/Iceshrimp-JS/CherryPick/Catodon/Meisskey/Neko/Tanukey/... post import including file attachments</li><li>Twitter post import including file attachments</li><li>Facebook post import including file attachments</li><li>Instagram post import including file attachments</li></ul> Even then, Mastodon won't be a match for Friendica, much less (streams) and Forte or even Hubzilla. CC: @<a href="https://flipboard.social/@mike" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mike McCue</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Sharkey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Sharkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.world/@siblingpastry" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">James Edwards</a> This is highly ableist. This would mean that people who are constantly low on spoons due to Long Covid, Post-Covid, ME/CFS or the like would not be allowed to post images. Ever. This would mean that autistic people who simply cannot turn images into words (no matter how often your likes tell them to "just try harder", they simply lack the ability) would not be allowed to post images. Ever. This would mean that blind people would not be allowed to post images. Ever. And yes, they do post images. CC: @<a href="https://mstdn.social/@IAmDannyBoling" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Danny Boling ☮️</a> @<a href="https://ioc.exchange/@whophd" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Christian Kent   𝘊𝘒 :＼﹥</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongCovid" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongCovid</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=PostCovid" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">PostCovid</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ME%2FCFS" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ME/CFS</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Autism" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Autism</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Autistic" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Autistic</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Blind" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Blind</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VisuallyImpaired" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">VisuallyImpaired</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Disabled" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Disabled</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Disability" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Disability</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableist" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ableist</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ableism" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ableism</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://troet.cafe/@klappspatack" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Klappspatack</a> Ohne jetzt irgendwas davon selbst getestet zu haben, würde ich ein zweigleisiges Vorgehen empfehlen. Zum einen Twitter auf Koks: Sharkey. Sollte verspielt genug für junge Leute sein. App dazu, falls nötig: Aria. Zum anderen für Diskussionen in Gruppen: Mbin oder PieFed. App dazu, falls nötig: Interstellar (nur für Android). Pixelfed ist eher für Künstler und nicht der 1:1-Drop-in-Instagram-Klon, als das es gern hingestellt wird. Loops ist unfertig und immer noch nicht dezentralisiert. Und Friendica, sorry, ist noch altbackener als Mastodon, auch wenn es zu den mächtigsten Sachen im Fediverse gehört. Außerdem treibt sich auch auf Facebook, wofür Friendica eine Alternative sein will, kaum einer rum, der jünger ist als die ersten zwei Millennial-Jahrgänge. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Sharkey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Sharkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AriaApp" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AriaApp</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mbin" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mbin</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=PieFed" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">PieFed</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Interstellar" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Interstellar</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://wandering.shop/@afeinman" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Alex Feinman</a> @<a href="https://blob.love/@nora" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Nora Reed</a> Alt-text must never include explanations! Explanations must always go into the post itself! Not everyone can access alt-text. Sighted people need a mouse/trackball/touchpad/trackpoint or a touch screen to access alt-text. And in order to operate that, they need at least one working hand. But not everyone has working hands. Just like not everyone can see, which is why you describe your images in the first place, right? For those who can't access alt-text, any information only available in alt-text and neither in the post text nor in the image itself is inaccessible and lost. They can't open it, they can't read it. Here are three relevant pages in my (very early WIP) wiki about image descriptions and alt-text: <ul><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/Can(20)everyone(20)access(20)alt-text(3f)" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Can everyone access alt-text?</a></li><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/Don(27)t(20)explain(20)things(20)or(20)give(20)other(20)information(20)only(20)in(20)alt-text(21)" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Don't explain things or give other information only in alt-text!</a></li><li><a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/wiki/jupiter_rowland/How(20)to(20)describe(20)images(20)in(20)the(20)Fediverse/Don(27)t(20)use(20)alt-text(20)to(20)write(20)around(20)your(20)character(20)limit(21)" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Don't use alt-text to write around your character limit!</a></li></ul> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Disability" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Disability</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=A11y" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">A11y</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Accessibility" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Accessibility</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://moppels.bar/@crossgolf_rebel" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts</a> <blockquote>ich glaube, das Mastodon die einzige Software ist, die so rigoros in die Beiträge anderer eingreift.</blockquote> Natürlich zeigt nicht alles alles an. Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) und Forte müssen z. B. passen bei Inline-Spoilern, die jetzt dank frisiertem Markdown mehr und mehr um sich greifen, wo einfach kurze Textpassagen mitten im Absatz ausgeblendet sind (nicht mehr nur auf den *keys, sondern jetzt auch auf PieFed). Die vier haben ja noch die old-schooligen Spoiler zum Ausklappen, die wiederum sonst nirgendwo funktionieren. Woanders ist dann wiederum nicht gewährleistet, daß im Text eingebettete Bilder, die die vier beherrschen, auch tatsächlich im Text eingebettet dargestellt werden. Ich glaube auch, es gibt nicht sehr viele Fediverse-Serveranwendungen, deren Webinterfaces Tabellen in Posts darstellen können. Eigentlich schade, Tabellen können noch praktischer sein als Listen, wenn man sich nicht beim Bauen von Tabellen in BBcode die Finger und das Hirn verknoten müßte. Aber tatsächlich gibt es keine Serversoftware im Fediverse, die Posts so entstellt wie Mastodon. Erst seit Version 4.0 von Oktober 2022 zeigt es zumindest ein bißchen grundlegende Textformatierung an. Aber im Text eingebettete Bilder entfernt es weiterhin ersatzlos. Wenn Friendica & Nachfahren nicht beim Versenden per ActivityPub alle im Post eingebetteten Bilder zusätzlich als Dateianhänge an den Post klemmen würden, würde Mastodon gar keine Bilder anzeigen. Und selbst von den nachträglich angehängten Bildern, wo man dann raten darf, wo sie in den Post reingehören, kommen nur maximal vier mit. Zugegeben, eigentlich ist es nicht im Sinne der ActivityPub-Erfinder, Note-Type Objects, die ja eigentlich Kurznachrichten sein sollen, wie Blogposts zu gestalten. Dafür gibt's eigentlich Article-Type Objects. Friendica verschickt standardmäßig Posts mit Titel als Article-Type Objects und ohne Titel als Note-Type Objects (das ist abstellbar). Auf (streams) und Forte kann man wie eine kurze Zeitlang auf Hubzilla den ganzen Kanal hin- und herschalten. Aber Mastodon weigert sich, Article-Type Objects überhaupt darzustellen. Seit sich damals nach der ActivityPub-Einführung mal Mike und Eugen über Textausgestaltung vs. nur Reintext in der Wolle hatten, werden Article-Type Objects nur noch verlinkt. Eigentlich hat das seine Vorteile: Mastodon-Nutzer sehen die Posts an der Quelle und nicht durch Mastodon entstellt, und was Mastodon selbst anzeigt, ist schön kurz und knapp, egal, wie lang der Post ist. Aber andererseits lesen dann noch weniger Mastodon-Nutzer diese Posts, weil sie keinen Bock haben, den Link zu öffnen. Deshalb hält Hubzilla eisern an Note-Type Objects fest und bietet Article-Type Objects nicht mal mehr als Option. Aktuell bekommt Mastodon wohl einiges an Druck von Ghost, Flipboard und Automattic (WordPress). Die wollen, daß Mastodon ihre Posts a) direkt in der Timeline und b) bitteschön mit voller HTML-Formatierung darstellt. Mal sehen, ob da noch was kommt. In den Ankündigungen für die nächsten Mastodon-Versionen ist meines Wissens nichts drin. <blockquote>Auch zeigen die anderen immer alle Bilder an, sei es Sharkey, Misskey, Friendica, Pixelfed usw. Außer man ist mit Mastodon unterwegs. Da wird einem nicht mal mitgeteilt, das es den Beitrag verändert und Teile des Inhalts einfach wegwirft.</blockquote> Wobei die wie gesagt nicht unbedingt im Post eingebettet dargestellt werden, wenn sie im Original im Post eingebettet sind. <blockquote>Dann kommen noch die Mastodon Hooligans dazu, die möchten, das alle nur das machen, was Mastodon kann.</blockquote> Und jeder, aber auch wirklich jeder auf Mastodon schwört hoch und heilig, daß es solche Hooligans nicht gibt, weil sie das selbst so noch nie erlebt haben. Ach ja, und selbst wenn das stimmen sollte (tut es, weisen sie aber zurück), empfinden sie das auch nicht als diskriminierend. <blockquote>Eine vollkommene Missachtung dessen, was das Fediverse ist. Und es war schön immer ein Langtext Netzwerk, lange bevor es Mastodon überhaupt gab.</blockquote> Erklär das denen, für die es unvorstellbar ist, daß es überhaupt ein Fediverse vor Mastodon gab. CC: @<a href="https://bonn.social/@RockyBoulder" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">RockyBoulder</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misskey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Misskey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkey" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkeys" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forkeys</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Ghost" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Ghost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Flipboard" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">Flipboard</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=WordPress" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">WordPress</a>

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