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Sebastian Bergmann :phpunit:<p>Here is the material I used for my presentation on <a href="https://phpc.social/tags/TestStubs" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>TestStubs</span></a> and <a href="https://phpc.social/tags/MockObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>MockObjects</span></a> at <a href="https://phpc.social/tags/NeosCon24" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>NeosCon24</span></a> <a href="https://phpc.social/tags/NeosCon" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>NeosCon</span></a> today:</p><p><a href="https://thephp.cc/presentations/testing-with-doubles-why-when-and-how?ref=mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="ellipsis">thephp.cc/presentations/testin</span><span class="invisible">g-with-doubles-why-when-and-how?ref=mastodon</span></a></p><p><a href="https://phpc.social/tags/PHPUnit" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>PHPUnit</span></a></p>
InfoQ<p>Developers should consider using <a href="https://techhub.social/tags/FakeObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="tag">#<span>FakeObjects</span></a> instead of <a href="https://techhub.social/tags/MockObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="tag">#<span>MockObjects</span></a>! </p><p>Fake objects offer similar isolation benefits while driving high confidence, clear documentation &amp; loose coupling between implementation and test code.</p><p><a href="https://techhub.social/tags/InfoQ" class="mention hashtag" rel="tag">#<span>InfoQ</span></a> article by Tyson Gern: <a href="http://bit.ly/3mfL9Wc" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener" translate="no"><span class="invisible">http://</span><span class="">bit.ly/3mfL9Wc</span><span class="invisible"></span></a> </p><p><a href="https://techhub.social/tags/UnitTesting" class="mention hashtag" rel="tag">#<span>UnitTesting</span></a> <a href="https://techhub.social/tags/SoftwareTesting" class="mention hashtag" rel="tag">#<span>SoftwareTesting</span></a> <a href="https://techhub.social/tags/DevOps" class="mention hashtag" rel="tag">#<span>DevOps</span></a></p>
J. B. Rainsberger (he)<p>You can use <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/TestDoubles" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>TestDoubles</span></a> (<a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/mockobjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>mockobjects</span></a>) without using a library/framework just the same as you can use <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/DependencyInjection" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>DependencyInjection</span></a> without a container.</p><p>You don't need to feel stuck, even though I can guess how to reached the point of believing you were.</p>
J. B. Rainsberger (he)<p>Further to my recent discussion about <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/TestDoubles" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>TestDoubles</span></a>/ <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/MockObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>MockObjects</span></a> in design, I remember asking this question at a SoCraTes event in Rochegude, France:</p><p>"Are method/function expectations an <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/OOP" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>OOP</span></a> disease?"</p><p>(Or something similar.)</p><p>The short answer seemed to be this: it's quite OO, but maybe not a disease. In FP we sometimes contort ourselves to turn complicated custom workflows into straightforward function composition, and it's not always worth the effort.</p><p><a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/lightweight" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>lightweight</span></a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/evolutionarydesign" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>evolutionarydesign</span></a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/tdd" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>tdd</span></a></p>
J. B. Rainsberger (he)<p>Further to this idea, whose videos on "evolutionary design without <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/TestDoubles" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>TestDoubles</span></a> / <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/MockObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>MockObjects</span></a>" would you endorse? I mean you really like them. You found them compelling and convincing. They don't have to be free.</p><p><a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/lightweight" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>lightweight</span></a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/EvolutionaryDesign" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>EvolutionaryDesign</span></a> <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/tdd" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>tdd</span></a> </p><p><a href="https://mastodon.social/@jbrains/109438581624133795" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="ellipsis">mastodon.social/@jbrains/10943</span><span class="invisible">8581624133795</span></a></p>
M. Scott Ford<p><span class="h-card"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@jbrains" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">@<span>jbrains</span></a></span> I would attend. I'm still a fan of using <a href="https://toot.legacycode.rocks/tags/MockObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>MockObjects</span></a>. My experience has been that the people who follow the "London" testing style (Nat Pryce and others) tend to like using them, while the people who follow the "Chicago" testing style (Sandi Metz, David Bernstein, and others) tend to not like using them.</p>
J. B. Rainsberger (he)<p>I'm mulling hosting an open discussion about the widespread antipathy towards <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/TestDoubles" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>TestDoubles</span></a> ("<a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/MockObjects" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">#<span>MockObjects</span></a>"), because I'd like to understand more about why others have this and I don't.</p><p>I'm worried about doing this, because people can act in a way that I prefer not to experience, especially when we try to discuss such issues.</p><p>I'm curious about three things:</p><p>- Would you attend this?<br>- Would you watch a recording of this after the fact?<br>- How would you handle the "bad behavior" issue?</p>